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Bardan

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptySun Jan 31, 2016 5:25 pm

D'oh! Thanks.

So if I wanted to have a unit open up with a certain attack, say a ranged attack, but then close in for follow up attacks, how might I form that? Remove the manual weaponswitch and have weapon 2 be the ranged with a long reload time so they resort to weapon 1? Or will they not likely do that automatically based solely on reload? I know they'll switch when mana is the issue, but didn't know about reload. Have any idea?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 4:06 pm

Maybe use minrange = ? for the 2nd attack so the weapon can only be used at a certain range.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 5:39 pm

I'll you around with it...

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 7:48 pm

Play with scripts, you can make it work by working with Scripts. I can help you if you want.

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Bardan

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 8:52 pm

It can work with simple .fbi commands. Just forgot which. Scripting. Who needs it?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 10:20 pm

I don't believe you can go from 1st weapon to 2nd weapon and keep it going vice-versa automatically with fbi commands...

You can just go from one to another when you run out of mana. About the minrange, I don't think it'll work, as if a 900 min range long ranged weapon gets in 800 range, the unit will go back and when it's in 900 it'll fire (amazon knights for example).

I believe it depends on which weapon is selected by the game. For example, if I have a unit with 2 weapons:

1st weapon
range = 900;
minrange = 600;

2nd weapon
range = 500;

Now let's analyze this. If the game selects the first weapon, the unit will fire from 900 range. If it gets below 600 range, it'll start walking back to 600 to fire it. So, it'll never get to fire the 2nd weapon. Maybe while it is going back to the 600 range, in a 500 range, it randomly fires backwards. Second example:

1st weapon
range = 500;

2nd weapon
range = 900;
minrange = 600;

Game selects 1st weapon. It'll always try to get into 500 range to fire its weapon, you can be at 900, but the game is going to use the first weapon anyway. It can randomly fire the 2nd weapon while walking to the 500 range.

You can switch them with the mana thing, yeah, but you can't go vice-versa through this anyway...

Those are just hypothetical cases that I believe it would happen. Instead of writing that huge **** that I'm not even sure, I could just test in game LOL. I should have miss something, that might be simple, correct me if I'm wrong. :O

Script solution: Switch weapons "behind the scenes" in the game, you won't see it changing, it'll only happen "automatically". You can set intervals to the weapon be ready or not, you can do almost everything. =) I'll say again, if you want help, I'll be glad to help.

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Vhaerun

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm

Now if you look at the various god's stats, you can get a rough idea of what you want. In addition, minrange can be used on that 2nd weapon to prevent the 2nd weapon being used if you just want the first weapon to be used for close combat. However, if you use the minrange command on the 2nd weapon, with a short sightdistance so the unit can close in on a target, the unit will only use the first attack on melee combat and not the second.
2ndweapon: range = 900, minrange 201. First weapon range 200. So from 900 - 201 the unit will use the 2nd attack and when it reaches range 200, it will switch to the 1st weapon. And use a sightdistance around 200 or less so the unit can close in for melee combat...rambling, sleeepy!

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 11:11 pm

Aramon, Taros, Veruna and Creon gods use melee attacks at 1st weapon, which one is selected by the game as the principal attack. Zhon has only one weapon so it doesn't count. That means, even having long ranged attacks (2nd/3rd weapon), if you target an enemy unit, only the melee (1st weapon) will follow your command. Example: There are 2 enemy monarchs, if garacaius 2rd/3rd spell start attacking 1 of them, clicking on the other won't change their 2nd/3rd spell target, only the first (the melee one). You don't have control over them by fbi, that's why you should switch the main weapon in the script. Btw Garacaius has a melee attack 1000 range but it doesn't work properly because the "melee" type doesn't accept 1000 range, so it'll walk up in like 50 range and attack lol.

If Vhaerun 2nd weapon is the selected, unit will attack from 900-201 and will never go lower than that, because once lower, it'll move to 201 range again to be able to fire again. You can go lower by moving, but then you can randomly fire your first weapon. If the first weapon is the selected, unit will walk up into 200 range to fire it, maybe while more than 200 range it randomly fires the 2nd weapon. Do you guys follow my logic? lol I'm not even sure of it, just thinking about all of it.

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Bardan

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2016 11:26 pm

DK, you're assuming weapons are selected and frozen once selected. I'm suggesting no such weapons controls in the first place. You mention the Gods and their other weapons. Their weapons fire and you can't control them. That's the point.

Look back at my Twisted One weapons problem. Something was off and I hadn't included the weaponswitch line. So it started - STARTED - with it's level 3 spell. As soon as it fired off, it immediately switched back to it's level 1 spell. Why? Because it had burned all of it's mana.

So I'm wondering if that's the simple solution. Simply remove the weaponswitch option. The game, for some reason, automatically went to the level 3 spell. Is there a reason for it?

(Sort of somehow why the game will always have the AI monarchs 'save' their 3rd wave spells for dire moments.)

But I think that's all I really need for the specific unit I have in mind. I need a unit to open up with an attack which stuns the target for a couple of seconds, allowing the unit to continue bashing unabated. That's the idea. So if I gave the stun weapon a long reload time, or required a large dose of mana, then it would be forced to resort to the next best alternative - his standard smashy attack. Now, when that reload wore off, or he regained mana (either one or both?), then he'd loose the stun again.

I think I'll give it a shot.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 12:32 am

Yes, I'm assuming the game selects one weapon to take as a reference to the unit's variables, how it will behave. Usually the first weapon (God's case, melee one).
With weaponswitching, you can switch weapons whenever you want and change the references the game make (900 range 1st, after 400 range), unique weapons that won't mix with other weapons (garacaius 2nd/3rd attack together or even dirigible arrow/ball, you don't control the arrow, but you control the ball, why? because the ball is 1st weapon!!).
Without weaponswitching, weapons will be thrown everywhere and only the first weapon will be controllable. You can make the "out of mana switch" system but it will switch once and never more (I think). The only way to control it is modifying script, that I'm saying for you to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 9:55 am

How would you modify the script so the weapons are used based on range?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 10:01 am

What if range isn't the issue, though? Say a unit needs that stun attack whenever it becomes available? But not just get stuck in the interim?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 10:25 pm

Testing here, I think it seems there is no way to change the weapon the game takes as reference. It'll always choose the first weapon. I was thinking of making the weapon switch based on reloadtime in the script, for example, call weapon1 (super long sniper shot attack 900 range) script, when it finishes it has a variable that locks it for 10 seconds. While it is locked, it won't be chosen by the script, it'll skip this weapon1 code, it's going now to execute the weapon2 (short range rapid fire 300 range) script while weapon1 is locked, when weapon1 comes avaiable again it'll switch to weapon1 again. All using scripts. You could do that with fbi too? Yes, once only, when it runs out of mana and switchs. But only once.

Howeeever, switching/making weapon avaiable in scripts doesn't change the game references/point of view, it'll always take the first weapon as reference. Only if you manually change it by clicking into the weapon arts, then it'll change the references (kirenna first attack has a range, bubble has other, wave has other).

Making 2+ weapons to work automatically is very annoying in TA:K. I don't know how exactly it works yet. Dirigibles for example, you can't control its arrow in anyway, only if manually selected.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyWed Feb 03, 2016 6:30 am

All I know is the Twisted One I had a few days ago would attack ground with his wave weapon first, then immediately switch to his weapon1 Lightning. Without buttons available. I would command him to stop, and wait a while, then tell him to attack ground again, and again he led with the wave attack before using his lightning.

So there's a way, and I just stumbled onto. I corrected it with that unit, so I'll have to go back and try to figure how and if will work with others. It is not working yet with the melee unit in mind, so perhaps that's the key, not being ranged. I don't know yet.

But at the hospital, so will have to wait.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 11:50 am

Baby girl has been taking up my time, and I start a new job tomorrow. I'll still work on this when I have time, but it'll be slower going. Just an FYI for anyone who still cares.

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2016 5:30 pm

Lol, we still care!

Baby, job and TA:K modding? Time for some prozac Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2016 9:18 am

Notes:
Xorn spell 1 manacost
Death Knight AoE and spell
Poltergeist spells
Spellsword attacks
Fel Orb multi attack

Minaret'd Buttressed
Dark Portal

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyFri Aug 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Current state of things.
Definitely NOT where I left things off, I don't think...

Rework

Xorn (Monarch)
-Lodestone
-Crypt (T1 Factory)
-Fel Orb (T1 Defense)
-Gate //move to T1
-Wall
-Felguard (Henchmen)

Crypt (T1 Factory) (Reliquary?)
-Ether Eye (Scout)
-Gremlin (Cheap, Weak Melee)
-Undead Bowman (Fast, Weak Ranged)
-Lobstrosity (Can Swim Melee) //move to T1 Builder
-Undead Footman (Sturdy Melee)
-Felhound (Fast-ish *Siege* Ranged)
-Dedicated (T1 Builder)

Dedicated (T1 Builder)
-Lodestone
-Crypt (T1 Factory)
-Chapel (T2 Factory)
-Fel Orb (T1 Defense)
-Netherfire Tower (T2 Defense)
//add Gate
-Wall
-Gremlin //replace with Lobstrosity

Chapel (T2 Factory)
-Dedicated (T1 Builder)
-Forsaken (T2 Builder)
-Death Knight (fast mounted, nothing special) //rename?
-Fiend (hover? melee)
-Rift Demon (mid-range AoE support fire)
-Revenant (short range fire support)
-Spectre (hover melee, paralyzing & stoning)
-Wight (melee)

Forsaken (T2 Builder)
-Lodestone
-Chapel (T2 Factory)
-Aslyum (T3 Factory)
-Netherfire Tower (T2 Defense)
-Demonic Bomb (Cloak? Defense)
-Bone Cannon (T3 Defense)
-Reaper (Cloaker)
-Rift Portal (Static Transporter)

Asylum (T3 Factory)
-Dark Gryphon (flight) //wasn't this T1 or T2? "Wraightwing"
-Nightmare (flight) //why two fliers here?
-Spellsword (cloak melee?)
-Bone Golem (fast fodder melee)
-Twisted One (T3 Builder)
-Felguard Warden (Mage Archer*ish)
-Wight Lord

Wight Lord
-Wight
*Unworthy Dead (Resurrected by W.Lord)

Twisted One (T3 Builder)
-Bone Cannon (T3 Defense)
-Chapel (T2 Factory) //should be T3 Factory
-Netherstorm Dragon (Divine Dragon)
-Netherguard Elite
-Zadok Hellbringer (Deity)
-Manaforge (Divine Lodestone)
-Xorn (Monarch)


///Not Used
Dark Obalisk - defense?
dpro - early twisted one?
dwel1 - divine lode
bone - Bone Giant, eh wot?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptySat Aug 17, 2019 9:12 am

Hmm. Somehow I ended up with a V3 which is what I worked with in 2013, a V4 that was in 2016, and this V5 which has... The confusing bits. Apparently in the interim somewhere, as folders were reorganized, some things got misplaced or something.

It's interesting that I have all these notes to look back on to remind myself where I was and what I was doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyWed Aug 28, 2019 10:17 pm

Bardan,

Is there a working link to download the race? If so, could you put it on your first post?

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PostSubject: Re: Tyrak Reworked   Tyrak Reworked - Page 6 EmptyFri Aug 30, 2019 2:56 pm

I mean. It'd be like uploading a pile of unsorted junk at the moment, so no.

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