Multi-scripts without Ghosts, Off-screen, Mon-rush, Treb-spam, Gates etc.

Hello again...
Plenty of experienced players have suggested that only a new patch can save TA:Kingdoms and trully revive it. A patch which would correct any bugs and unbalances, with the most important being the following:

1) No Ghost making
2) No Off-screen flying units for scouting, dropping etc.
3) No 10,000 Trebuchets, but a single Trebuchet should be enough (or no Trebs at all).
4) No 10,000 Gates, but a single Gate should be enough (or no Gates at all).
5) No Mon rushes or teir 1 rushes in general.
6) No speedjacking.
7) No useless/imbalanced units.

Unfortunately, I am not capable of making a new patch. Fortunately, thanks to Cartographer's Multiplayer-scripting and ramstein's Singleplayer-scripting, I am capable of making maps which have most of these issues fixed (except for speedjacking)!
Here is an example map, feedback and suggestions in order to improve it are highly welcome.
* ARTHAN's Fairplay: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61724283/ARTHAN%27s%20FairplayV1.kmp
4 Player Multi-script, player 1 & 3 Vs 2 & 4

Map's Description:
* Move one of your units (Swordsman, Executioner, Warrior, Goblin) near the flag in order to play with the selected race. If none of your units moved, you will play with Creon instead.
* Do NOT make more than a single Trebuchet. If you make two of them, both of your Trebs will be damaged until destroyed.
* Gates can't be created.
* Monarchs will appear after 5 minutes in order to avoid Mon rushes.
* There are also some starting units and defenses that come with each race in order to avoid too early rushes.
* Do NOT sent flying units off-screen, because they are just going to be severly damaged. Especially, birds will die instantly.
* Ghost making is NOT available. Ghost are destroyed by the time they are made.
* Some units have greater health regeneration in order to be more powerful/useful.

Remember, this is not perfectly balanced yet, however with the proper feedback of TAK's most experienced players it can indeed become.
Good Luck & Have Fun

Oh that s f***n awesome !

Quote :

* Gates can't be created.

x)

i like ideas of scripts...new players love scripts and that will give some life to tak.
Now about other things like trebs i think ppl could say before game start things like no treb no shadow and etc...make few rules...sure some ppl cry about trebs but when is losing do it, what is funny -.-

I don't wonder anymore why top players wouldn't share their stuff. Besides I don't think that ghost unbalances the game. Whoever is able to make a ghost will win anyway even without it.

Quote :

* Some units have greater health regeneration in order to be more powerful/useful.

What units have more health regeneration?

Looking good anyway, good job.

Best Ever wrote:

What units have more health regeneration?

Looking good anyway, good job.

Health regeneration is still in development and a high quality feedback is needed in order to make it truly balanced. Overall, I gave some health regeneration to the least used units. Grenadier, Ballista, Wisp, Dark Hand, Automaton, Shock Trooper, Dark Knight and Rolling Tower are the units I gave a little more regeneration, though this list may expand/reduced according to any feedback I recieve. For now, only Manolo has a copy of my map (I can still not upload it to dropbox due to connectivity issues, but I am working on it).

-<-<-Prologue->->-

Here is V1 of the fairplay map as well as its description and scripting tips. Max players are 8.
Link is here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61724283/ARTHAN%27s%20FairplayV1.kmp

-- Scenario Properties --

* Move one of your units (Swordsman, Executioner, Warrior, Goblin) near the flag in order to play with the selected race. If none of your units moved, you will play with Creon instead.
* Do NOT make more than a single Trebuchet. If you make two of them, both of your Trebs will be damaged until destroyed.
* Gates can't be created. EDIT: Gates are now allowed only once (like Treb).
* Monarchs will appear after 5 minutes in order to avoid Mon rushes.
* There are also some starting units and defenses that come with each race in order to avoid too early rushes. These are:
(a) 2 Watch Towers & 1 Grenadier with Aramon.
(b) 2 Guard Towers & 1 Pillar of Light with Veruna.
(c) 3 Caged Deamons with Taros.
(d) 2 Sacred Fires & 1 Death Totem with Zhon.
(e) 3 Gatling Crossbows with Creon.
* Do NOT sent flying untis off-screen, they will be damaged until they die.
* The following units have a small regeneration of 25:
Automaton, Black Knight, Giant Barracuda.
* The following units have an average regeneration of 50:
Dark Hand, Rolling Tower, Shock Trooper.
* The following units have a big regeneration of 100:
Ballista, Grenadier, Wisp.
* Ark has an awesome regeneration of 300.


<-<- Tips about scripting ->->


-- How to make flying units being killed while off-screen --

1) Create a big trigger on the top corner of the map and call it "bird-killer" or something.
2) In Scenario Scripting, select "All Players", then "Add Rule", then in "Add Condition..." select the "Always" condition.
3) After that, in "Add Action...", select the "Damage (unit type) by (value) at (bird-killer)" action. The unit type should be a flying unit and the amount of damage should be at least enough to kill it in a few seconds.
4) Repeat step 3 by adding a new "Damage" action and selecting a different flying unit untill you have included every flying unit in the game (Mission/NPC flying units aren't needed).

example: Here is the rule in Fairplay V1 map.

Current Player:
All Players
Rule:
#2
Condition:
Always
Action:
Damage (Aramon Flying Builder) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Aramon Gold Dragon) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Aramon Spyhawk) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Creon Aerial Juggernaut) by <5000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Creon Barnstormer) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Creon Neo Dragon) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Black Dragon) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Dark Priest) by <300> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Fallen Angel) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Gargoyle) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Ghost Ship) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Iron Beak) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Taros Sky Knight) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Veruna Dirigible) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Veruna Parrot) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Veruna Sea Dragon) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Ancient Dragon) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Bat) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Drake) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Gryphon) by <300> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Harpy) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Roc) by <5000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Thirsa) by <2000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Wisp) by <1000> at (bird-killer)
Damage (Zhon Wrath of Tammuz) by <5000> at (bird-killer)

The above damage is instantly lethal for birds, but I was a little merciful with Thirsa (she tends to fly off-screen often while she builds), Dark Priest (same with Thirsa), Gryphon (loves flying off-sceen), holy dragons (it would be a shame to have such an expensive and time-consuming unit to be slain instantly if it goes off sceen), Wrath of Tammuz (same with holy dragons).
Furthermore, the rest of the flying units die in a few seconds but they have enough time to retread from the bird-killer zone in case they enter it by accident. However, if you wish to totally annihilate any unit it dares to enter the bird-killer area even by mistake, then either deal 1,000,000 damage to it via the above action or use the "Destroy at " action instead.


-- How to give regeneration to those underused & "underpowered" units --

Though I don't find any unit useless at all, a small regeneration might encourage the use of those units and/or make them less situational.

1) In Scenario Scripting, select "All Players", then "Add Rule", then in "Add Condition..." select the "Always" condition.
2) After that, in "Add Action...", select the "Heal (unit type) by (value) at (Anywhere)" action.
3) Repeat step 2, selecting a different unit each time which you think it needs extra regeneration.

example: Here is the rule in Fairplay V1 map.

Current Player:
All Players
Rule:
#5
Condition:
Always
Action:
Heal (Aramon Ark) by <300> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Aramon Grenadier) by <100> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Zhon Wisp) by <100> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Veruna Ballista) by <100> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Creon Shock Trooper) by <50> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Aramon Rolling Tower) by <50> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Taros Dark Hand) by <50> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Creon Automaton) by <25> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Taros Black Knight) by <25> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Zhon Giant Barracuda) by <25> at (Anywhere)

This is the Rule that needs the more careful management and suggestions/feedback in order to be improved are widely accepted.


-- How to make ghost making useless --

This can be achieved with a very-simple-yet-hard-to-think-about-it Rule.

1) In Scenario Scripting, select "All Players", then "Add Rule", then in "Add Condition..." select the "Always" condition.
2) After that, in "Add Action...", select the "Damage (Any Unit) by <1> at (Anywhere)" action.

That's it! Now every unit will be damaged by 1. This amount of damage is NOTHING for any completed unit type and it will be healed right away, but 1 damage is just so lethal for any kind of "ghost images" which they will explode right away.
Warning: Since ghost images are also used in building progress, some building attempts may fail sometimes, but if repeated once more they will be successful.

example: Here is the rule in Fairplay V1 map.

Current Player:
All Players
Rule:
#4
Condition:
Always
Action:
Damage (Any Unit) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Any Unit) by <1> at (Anywhere)

The Heal order is for typical & aesthetical reasons, but the ghost preventing can be achieved with the "Damage" action only.

EDIT: Due to problems which prevented Spyhawks and Parrots of being produced, the above rule's action was changed like this:

Action:
Damage (Aramon Ark) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Damage (Aramon Avatar of Anu) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Damage (Aramon Barracks) by <1> at (Anywhere)
...etc...
Damage (Zhon Troll) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Damage (Zhon Wisp) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Damage (Zhon Wrath of Tammuz) by <1> at (Anywhere)
Heal (Any Unit) by <1> at (Anywhere)


-- How to prevent building more than 1 Trebuchet --

1) In Scenario Scripting, select "All Players", then "Add Rule", then in "Add Condition..." select the "I control more than <1> (Aramon Trebuchet) at (Anywhere)" condition.
2) After that, in "Add Action...", select the "Damage (Aramon Trebuchet) by <300> at (Anywhere)" action.

example: Here is the rule in Fairplay V1 map.

Current Player:
All Players
Rule:
#3
Condition:
I control more than <1> (Aramon Trebuchet) at (Anywhere)
Action:
Damage (Aramon Trebuchet) by <300> at (Anywhere)

For an instant killing effect, you may use the "Destroy" action instead (or just rising the damage's value to 1,000,000 or something). However, keep in mind that with an instant treb-killing effect, a nasty opponent may give his/her Treb building to you on purpose, in order to destroy your Treb instantly. Though some players may find this infiltration tactic a nice twist on gameplay, some others may consider it cheating, so a fair amount of damage instead of instant Treb-killing can give you time to Ctrl+D the extra hostile Treb and to save your original one.


-- How to prevent any Gates of being built --

That's the easiest thing. You just select the "Use Only..." option, you de-select the "Use All Units" and de-select all the Gates from the list. Now, you can't have any Gates in your game.
If case you want Gates but only of a very small amount (eg. only 1 Gate per player), you can follow the rules for the Treb above instead.

EDIT: Now you are allowed to build each type of Gate only once.

-- Rules suck, I wan't to play the old good TA:K with 10 Gates & 200 Trebs & 3,000 ghosts & 40,000 off-sceen Spyhawks! --

That's also the easiest thing to do! Just de-select the "Use Mutliplayer Script" while you are about to play online and you have a normal 9x6, 8-player, 3rd party map with 4 big sacred stones for each participant.


-<-<-Epilogue->->-

I would be more than happy if this map becomes inspiration for more TAK map-designers and more maps of this style are going to be created. I also hoped I have shown the plenty of possibilities you can actually have with the Cartographer scripting capabilities.
Good Luck & Have Fun!

(btw. I wonder if those who left because TAK was all about Gates & Trebs & ghosts & off-sceen are going to come back now. Just wondering...)

Amazing job and explanation. You solve many things ppl cried about without need of destroying game (i mean you gave solutions using cartographer without need of patch, what would make new game). Maybe your solution can be extended for mods. I started play Starcraft few months and saw ppl like scripted maps, maybe we should invest more time in this game style.
Now we only need copy of tademo recorder for tak and we will have great improvement in games ;D.

Thanks, EvilSharm.
By the way, have you any feedback about Fairplay map (balancing suggestions, any bugs etc.). I personally have encountered a problem; Spyhawks and Parrots can't be created, because they die instantly for some reason (I suppose that's because of the "Damage Any Unit by 1 at Anywhere trigger").

So, what do you suggest me to do of the following?

1) Remove all the 5 flying scouts from every race by making them unable to be used.
2) Give Aramon/Veruna players a new Spyhawk/Parrot every minute. The Spyhawk/Parrot should be spawned near the flag.
3) Remake the no-ghosts script in order to exclude Spyhawk/Parrot and any other unit that isn't used for ghostmaking. However, this would make half of the minimap units to flash all the time while the other half wouldn't. Furthermore, flashing may betray the nature of some units.
4) Just enable ghostmaking.
5) Leave the script as it is, after all Spyhawks and Parrots were broken! Death to Aramon and Veruna!

I'm not sure what flashing means in 3, but it looks the better option.

Quote :

(btw. I wonder if those who left because TAK was all about Gates & Trebs & ghosts & off-sceen are going to come back now. Just wondering...)

Who left because of that?

Best Ever wrote:

I'm not sure what flashing means in 3, but it looks the better option.

Quote :

(btw. I wonder if those who left because TAK was all about Gates & Trebs & ghosts & off-sceen are going to come back now. Just wondering...)

Who left because of that?

I have changed the script according to option 3, like Best Ever (Landherr) suggested.

Quote :

(btw. I wonder if those who left because TAK was all about Gates & Trebs & ghosts & off-sceen are going to come back now. Just wondering...)

At least Clay has said he will not come back because of those reasons (Gates, off-screen etc.) or at least that's what he claimed...
Furthermore, I have seen plenty of various complains in these forums or the TAUniverse ones about trebs, gates, off-screen or even ghosts.
Anyway, I just hope this type of multi-script maps will help some people to come back.

EDIT: I AM WAITING FOR FEEDBACK OF ANY KIND!

After a request from MalinOMW, the 2-Player Fairplay version has been made, here is the link:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61724283/ARTHAN%27s%20Fairplay%282%20player%29.kmp

one thing is broken on that version (for my vs AI test)

that units die fast (they lost many health, and flag is damage always when there are more units so one unit not cause this)

so i just look at damage script and see gates

but gates are not allowed (in use only options), so there are no gates so game script
"if i control more than 1 aramon gate> damage aramon gate by value etc"
but if there are no any aramon gate (its forbidden by use only)
so game undestand this script in weirder way i guess
"if player control more than 1 ?unit? > damage ?unit? by value etc"

Edit
so solution is to make able to construction gates ?unforbidden? in use only
or remove scripts with damage multiple gates

Scripts are crazy in this game

I noobed this one; I forgot to remove this rule, though I had encountered the same problem before. I fixed it however, redownload please.

Btw looks like DK-Manolo made a Kirenna bugfix

I just hope he's not using it himself already in online games

Fix cloaking and make it public.

what's wrong with it?

There's an undefinable "aggro" mechanic that keeps your units from cloaking and it is not plugged into the UI. Take Lokken for example; sitting in your base you can cloak/decloak all day long. Get into a mon fight and all of a sudden you can't cloak anymore, or can you? When i'm running away from a fight I am constantly tapping the "K" button in hopes that a cloak fires off, and I would say about 20-30% of the time it does. What defines whether you cloak or not? What are the mechanics behind it? Someone told me long ago that they were all locked up in the base code (0001010010000010101110010) so I'm at a loss with this.

Other then that this game is fine.

This whole thing seems like a pet project for players who can't learn how to play. Sure, there are some things wrong and out of balance in this game, but Arthan has completely gutted TA:K because he and his conglomerates don't know how to deal with those situations. Gates, trebs, mortars, all of those things are frustrating, but they are supposed to be frustrating and stressful. If this game was a walk in the park then no one would play it (oh, the irony, lol).

In my personal opinion, why don't you devote your time and energy to a public forum about how to deal with these obstacles and simply ask for help, it doesn't hurt. There's a few things I need to iron out, too!

I don't mean to sound like a dick and discourage you from your work, but my friend, the numbers are not on your side.

Countless people and clans throughout the years have tried to implement their own versions and tweaks of TA:K and the public has always rejected it. Always as in 100% of the time. Sure, you and a handful of friends might like it, but then you are further isolating yourself from the rest of the players and creating your own gaming faction. Effectively creating a fractured TA:K community.

I've been around a long, long time my friend.

The best example is The Wolf Clan (www.thewolfclan.net). They created their own mod and slowly distanced themselves from BoneYards and MPlayer, after a while they were extinct to us because they played on their own server and they have obvioiusly died out in TA:K. Many, many clans tried this.

Even Sage tried it. Sage actually forced an option on Voobly to either play SageMod or 4.1bb. Even to play 4.1bb he got the consent from Voobly admins to require us to download his mod regardless if we chose to play it or not.

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is be careful what you wish for, stop and think about the unintended consequences if your mod actually gets some real movement and try not to replace TA:K with it. By all means, have fun modding and playing around but don't make the same mistake everyone else has made in the past and expect to public to accept it as a better version because it won't happen.

Fix cloaking!

You must be outside your opponent's radar/LOS in order to activate cloaking. You can deactivate cloaking any time you want. If you opponent sees you, you can't hide. It is actually like the Hide/Stealth skill of Dungeons & Dragons; you have to hide when your opponent isn't looking at you because otherwise he/she knows where you're hidden.

About this "mod", there is a great difference Hatebreeder. My "mod" is nothing more than a single map made via the cartographer via using cartographer scripting. You don't need a new patch or TAKSwitcher to play with it, you can just select the map, check if the "Use Map Script" button is pressed, then launch and have fun! At the same time, if you de-select the "Use Map Script" it is going to act like a normal skirmish map.
This "mod", as you can see, is not a "mod" at all; it is more like a multiplayer mission like Cairbay Coast Landing, Frey River Plain, Temple of Blood etc. (you probably know about those scripts who can be played online, don't you?). No community splitting or something like this. Just play something different than pure TAK skirmish for a while.

Ok Arthan, that's encouraging to hear. I wasn't quite sure what you were going for. I obviously didn't read the whole post.

Quote :

You must be outside your opponent's radar/LOS in order to activate cloaking. You can deactivate cloaking any time you want. If you opponent sees you, you can't hide. It is actually like the Hide/Stealth skill of Dungeons & Dragons; you have to hide when your opponent isn't looking at you because otherwise he/she knows where you're hidden.

This is not true. I can prove it and put an end to this debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgF8DH0zNII&list=UU7gestLhmmRh-UBkgBvnrtw&index=30

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgF8DH0zNII&list=UU7gestLhmmRh-UBkgBvnrtw&index=30

Hmm... In my point of view, though I am not an expert Tarosian at all, cloaking seems to work normally in this video; Lokken was able to activate his cloak while away from Warrior's LOS. Is there a specific moment where the claking "bug/glitch" is located?

Yes, at the very end. Start the video at 1:40.

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

Yes, at the very end. Start the video at 1:40.

Hmm, indeed, you are right here. Even if we suppose Warriors were too blind to notice, Thirsa should have noticed for sure. Well, yeah, now it seems a bit chaotic to me.

player1 wrote:

Btw looks like DK-Manolo made a Kirenna bugfix

I just hope he's not using it himself already in online games

lol... I didn't finish it yet... -.-

Just doing some tests.

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

All he said.

Hatebreeder, I don't know if there is a bug in Lokken's cloak, I never noticed this bug... I just know that if you attack or build something, you are unable to cloak in some time...

About the video, warriors found you cloacked, so you were unable to be cloaked again for a bit, then, you attacked the handler, ok more one thing to you be unable to cloak, you ran a little from warriors and wow, you cloaked! Thirsha didn't find you because she wasn't in your "circle of cloak", only her shadow (the "sun" of the game is in west I guess so), and maybe it confuses you. Then, warriors found you and you couldn't cloak again... I didn't notice any bug here.

If there is, maybe you'd like to show us better how it works.