Automatons and Shock Troopers: useful or useless?

I make this topic because I am tired of people who play TA:K online much longer than me, but who are too narrow-minded to understand that there is no useless units in Total Annihilation: Kingdoms. So, here are some tips and strategies of how to use your Automatons and Shock Troopers effectively.
* A common strategy in most RTS games is to have melee infantry in front of ranged infantry, so they will protect your archers from the fast-moving hostile cavarly. The same goes with TAK. Having a team of Automatons in front of a team of Shock Troopers is as effective as having Verunan Warriors in front of Crossbowmen, Musketeers or Centaurs, or having Aramonian Swordsmen in front of Archers or Mage Archers. Automatons and Shock Troopers can work well together.
* Creon are supposed to be the slowest race in TAK and, because of that, they are vulnerable in early game tier 1 rushes. Creonian Mechanics cannot freeze most of tier 1 melee infantry and cavarly, so they have to fight these units normaly. However, the Creon's inability to withstand early game rushes is not only the fault of the Creon race, it is also the fault of the Creonian player. 99% of Creonian players just create Fire Wagons again... and again... and again... Come on guys, is this strategy? An Automaton is the cheapest Creon fighting unit and it is as strong as an Aramonian Swordsman in 1v1 against him. So, instead of just creating Fire Wagons, why don't you also create a few Automatons to guard your Lodestones, for example?
* Most people say how awesome Beast Riders are. These units are trully awesome, however they cost more than 3000 mana, while Shock Troopers cost about 700 mana, so you can have 4-5 Shock Troopers with the same amount. When you have to attack I admit that Beast Riders are better, however, while you are defending your base those underestimated Shock Troopers are a really good choice.
* Automatons (and Tortoises) have some really good traits. They cannot be stoned, captured, frozen or ressurected. So, when a Zhonian Spirit Wolf or a Tarosian Mind Mage strikes you, just have your Automatons give them a warm welcome!
* In Creon Vs Creon wars, Shock Troopers can become very good Neo Dragon Killers in big groups. All Creonian units that can attack both in land and air (Fire Wagons, Shock Troopers, Beast Riders) are freezable by Neo Dragon's 2nd and 3rd attack. However, Fire Wagons have short range and Beast Riders are too expensive to allow them to be instantly freezed, so Shock Troopers are the best choice here.
* Both Automatons and Shock Troopers are slow, so they are not very good attackers. You can deal with this problem by uploading them on your Aerial Juggernaut and downloading them behind the enemy lines. If your opponent's base is near water, use Iron Clads and Stern Wheelers instead of Aerial Juggernaut.

I know about Spirit Wolf, this unit and Mind Mage were just examples. However, I would probably accompany my Automatons with some other units and I would gladly sacrifice 2-3 Automatons to take down a Spirit Wolf. However, Spirit Wolf is not as useful against Creon as he is against other kingdoms, because only Mechanics and Chief Engineers leave a ressurectable corpse behind. As for the Mind Mages (these units have a really nasty second attack!), use a combination of Automatons and Tortoises to take them down (Automatons and Tortoises cannot be captured).

ARTHAN wrote:

* In Creon Vs Creon wars, Shock Troopers can become very good Neo Dragon Killers in big groups. All Creonian units that can attack both in land and air (Fire Wagons, Shock Troopers, Beast Riders) are freezable by Neo Dragon's 2nd and 3rd attack. However, Fire Wagons have short range and Beast Riders are too expensive to allow them to be instantly freezed, so Shock Troopers are the best choice here.

This is the only good thing you have said, except I'm pretty sure Shock Troopers have the same range as fire wagons, and they explode.

By the words your typing, it sure escalates the question if anyone here knows how to really play creon correctly...Not trying to brag but I've won my share of games including 1v1 Creon vs Veruna, Creon vs Taros, and Creon vs Aramon on sewers multiple times. Same applies to smaller maps. I've had my fair share of loses as well, but my point is; Automations and Shock Troopers are 98% of the time useless and should never be made.

You can better manage those resources on other things. Its better to invest in a gatling crossbow than it is a shock trooper. Its better to conserve the mana incase you need to heal something, or build a barnstormer for sight, than it is to build an automation.

Also Creon gates are useless 90% of the time. They are almost always a waste of mana, and if you build one, its even less important to heal it. Just let it die or build a new one, bc they are cheap. If you're playing with your enemy below you they can help defend against trebs(if ur on bottom and they attack from top, trebs can attack over creon gates easier), but if you are Creon, there should be no reason your enemy gets the chance to make a treb to begin with. If they can build one in their base and attack you, youre obviously on a small map and you shouldn't have let them get that up. If its on a large map, then they have to have a forward outpost somewhere close enough to attack you which most of the time they either leave their base open, or their forward outpost isnt defended well enough.

The only other thing about Gates is if you use them for blocking units. Enemy units do not target Creon gates. They are forced to walk around them unless your enemy manually attacks them, or uses the F key move/attack. Its better to build gates than walls because they give you vision and you can attack through them.

Creon has a limited supply of units, but they have the firepower to do almost anything. Sea, land, air.
Creon is about playing smart. Not playing recklessly. The only thing that can ruin your day is a mon in ur base right after they build their Tier1 building. (Joker was infamous for this when I used to play) And don't talk about keeping enemies at bay... you have Tortoises, Beast Riders, and prismatic mirriors. What else do you need? Air support? Neo Dragons, Ariel Juggernaught. So anti ground, and dropping... please.

Just a few things.
I doubt you could survive and Elsin/horse rush as Sage.
I've managed to beat these mon rushes as Sage/Creon.
Your statement is implying joker is an expert player...
HAHAHA

Clay4141 wrote:

Just a few things.
I doubt you could survive and Elsin/horse rush as Sage.
I've managed to beat these mon rushes as Sage/Creon.
Your statement is implying joker is an expert player...
HAHAHA

LOL
Clay, if Joker is not expert then who are you?

Clay4141 wrote:

ARTHAN wrote:

* In Creon Vs Creon wars, Shock Troopers can become very good Neo Dragon Killers in big groups. All Creonian units that can attack both in land and air (Fire Wagons, Shock Troopers, Beast Riders) are freezable by Neo Dragon's 2nd and 3rd attack. However, Fire Wagons have short range and Beast Riders are too expensive to allow them to be instantly freezed, so Shock Troopers are the best choice here.

This is the only good thing you have said, except I'm pretty sure Shock Troopers have the same range as fire wagons, and they explode.

By the words your typing, it sure escalates the question if anyone here knows how to really play creon correctly...Not trying to brag but I've won my share of games including 1v1 Creon vs Veruna, Creon vs Taros, and Creon vs Aramon on sewers multiple times. Same applies to smaller maps. I've had my fair share of loses as well, but my point is; Automations and Shock Troopers are 98% of the time useless and should never be made.

You can better manage those resources on other things. Its better to invest in a gatling crossbow than it is a shock trooper. Its better to conserve the mana incase you need to heal something, or build a barnstormer for sight, than it is to build an automation.

Interesting the things you say. However, why don't you appear for a match with me, a Creon Vs Creon one, just to prove how wrong I am, how awesome Fire Wagons and Beast Riders are and how useless Automatons and Shock Troopers are? I talk a lot, I already know that, however I also play TAK online. You talk a lot, but you don't play. Why????????

I stopped reading when you said Joker was better than any 6t6 was, or carny or paddy or any of them...

That statement is very wrong. All these things you guys consider tricks and skills were known for years. There are many things about this game you guys do not even know and will never know. Joker is on the same level of playing I am/was. 6T6 and the others you mentioned, used to wipe the floor of Joker and myself. I know bc we were in a clan together. And we lost together.

You honestly have no idea. Show me in a video that you know how to wave across the map as Thirsha. Or you know how to shoot beyond the allowed range with a stronghold. Learn how to make a unit(s) completely immortal. You guys are the scrubs that are left of this game. Without a doubt some of the most unskilled players. There is no competition on TA:K anymore. You'll never reborn this game.

No competition ? Funny you're saying that, cause when i see old ta:k players supposed to be unbeatable on your old time and see how rusty they are : a-train, carnageking or immortal i dont remember who i played, games were pretty annoying

It's great to know some skills people dont know, but some of theml don't need this to rape you imo. It's jus ta bonus on the gameplay.

Just for the record Miojo was a cheater. Hands down the most obvious speedjacker that has ever played this game.

2nd off, Paddy never played on GameRanger. Paddy doesn't even frequent Ta:K. What you saw was someone smurfing as Paddy.

On top of all this ScaryMakako was a smurf, and I know who he was. He wasn't a brazilian either. Even tho he spoke portugesse.

I'm glad I've got you mad enough for you to close down your youtube and "quit" tak. Truth is you didn't quit. You logged on today with a new name. Your not fooling anyone.

Another good thing I have found about Automatons is that their death animation is really long. This is actually a good thing, since you can't move across them until they completely fall down, so they can really hinder the movement of your opponent's melee rushing units, giving you time to upgrade and to build more powerful units or building in order to turn the tides of the war.
Many people say that Automatons should be stronger, faster etc. The thing these people do not understand is that Automatons are used effectively mostly as meat shields to keep your emenies back and NOT to rush them to death, like other tier 1 melee units (Warriors, Swordsmen etc.). If Creon had the best tier 1 rusher around, there would be no match for them! They already rule in later gameplay, what is the point to completely rule into early gameplay too?

Hey used to play with most of you years ago. I am one of the rusty players but used to hold my own I think against the best of them back on GSA. Looking to get intouch with some of my old buddies. Anyone coming out of the woodwork?

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