I need your input.

I'm going to write a mana management guide soon, hopefully within the next week, and I am looking for some tips, tricks, or general usage that you guys know and use well.



My basic theory is to have a plan at the beginning of that game, burn all your mana as fast as possible and try to even it out when you reach zero. There... that should kick it off.



How do you manage your mana?



**Credit will be given in the guide where credit is due.

This seems like a great idea but all strats are more effective by visually seeing them. so maybe a series of youtube videos would better this idea

Mana may be the only resource in TAK, but its usage is far from simple.

* The guide needs to tell the difference between small, medium and big Sacred Stones and how much mana they produce when a Lodestone or a Divine Lodestone is placed upon them.

* The guide must include the amount of mana produced by Monarchs, buiders and factories. It may be just a mere +1, +2, +3 or +4, but in big numbers it can offer greater mana income.

* The guide must give advice for 3rd party maps with different amount of starting Sacred Stones in each player's side.

* The guide must include spread mana advice; the fastest way you can take middle Sacred Stones etc.

* Finally, it must include advices about mana income & outcome; when you need to keep your mana coming, when you must spend it like a maniac etc.

That's all, for now. Keep in mind it is quite a lot of work...

how i use my mana?
1.DONT HAVE MAX, i some builders/factory die you have some options to not waste your mana
a)give for your ally temporary some lodestones (if teamplay match)
b)start buy units which burn lots of mana, then when u came back with builders just stop and u gonna have that mana back or not if u need that units (thats units are trebuchet (more like -100) stronghold watch tower; mortar bastion guard tower trebuchet ship (u cant get back with mana but if u gonna lose some mana try spent it on any ways) (sometimes citadel also if u want to have big slow storage of mana later; same with other 3rd tier factory); mage tower caged demon; beast lord death totem; pristmatic mirror

2.also last time i try to remember how many sacred sites require which unit/factory for infitive prodution; examples u need +40(2 big sities) for infitive trolls, +100 for roc and jungle orc , +168 for roc and double jungle, +70-80 for stone giants etc

2 is not really important in this game, you need only to have little more - than + or if u aramon or veruna and gonna build mortars/bastions/trebs etc u need to preserve some mana for that builds



Also about mana/and begin startegy
just in 90% building first factory is good choose so notice this too, cause many novices buy first lodetone which is something weird strategy and require skill for better plan whole game

also on 3rd map just buy your mana as fast as possible
on cd/dc expand as fast as possible

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

My basic theory is to have a plan at the beginning of that game, burn all your mana as fast as possible and try to even it out when you reach zero. There... that should kick it off.

This. Early game you want to gain map control. The more you can burn early on, the more you will be rewarded.

I watched A-train play last night for a two games, and his key to victory on a high 9 large mana map was to create 3-4 buildings and rush tier 1 troops. While doing this, he burned a lot of mana thus gaining map control. Having map control provided him with lots of vision, and allowed him to counter what the enemy through at him.

From what I know, for the early game he was pretty low on his mana. But he was able to successfully upgrade to a tier 2/3 building with ease, while still changing his tier 1 building from early game warrior rush to warrior/crossbowman/catapults. It seemed that once his tier 2/3 building was complete, he rushed a tier 4 builder and promptly started to upgrade his mana.

However, the 2nd game he also decided to prolong his mana upgrade by not building a tier 4 builder right away. By doing so, he was sacrificing his late game potential for an early victory, which he was able to do.





For me, I try to always produce units. I try to spend all my mana and keep it as low to 0 as possible, while still remaining positive. Its much easier to manage mana when sieging... imo. When you have to repair your defenses, it feels like you waste too much.

I'd also take into consideration how much mana storage and mana income your monarch alone provides.

Often times, it is very good to leave a huge chunk of mana available for a moment's notice. I do like to spend a lot early in game, but sometimes in the first 5-6 minutes of game I will save a large chunk of mana just to build an expensive unit at a moment's notice with many builders.

A-train-DB wrote:

...blabla preserve mana blablabla................ with many builders.

ya true its can be something like appearing stronghold in the middle of the fight

I'd hate to be MalinOMW when he's listening to his girl-friend. Blahbla, blah-blah, blah BLAH!
Or more importantly, I'd hate to be his girlfriend.

A-train-DB wrote:

I'd hate to be MalinOMW when he's listening to his girl-friend....Blabla....
, I'd hate to be his girlfriend.

i just skip the less important part

dont worry in real life i am really good ?listener?, almost no one can annoy/bored expect 2 people (friend(he annoy almost everyone) and my brother (he just say lots of sh-its))

That's what's up Homie! I wish I was a good listener. You should see me at work.. ah well, don't listen to me.. I'm a good listener.

A-train-DB wrote:

That's what's up Homie! I wish I was a good listener. You should see me at work.. ah well, don't listen to me.. I'm a good listener.

NIgga xD we be swaggin all da time cuz niggas like yo nigga self be trippin! SWERVE

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

How do you manage your mana?

its extremely mathematical, ill use terms that come from unit stats to summarize things

buildcost
buildtime
mogriumincome
mogriumstorage
workertime

you should know what they mean except workertime maybe, but its simple, buildtime is divided by 10 (all builders workertime are 10) to give the real build time

buildcost/buildtime gives you the mana per second (i think its on doubles spreadsheet)

incomes are:
+10 for monarchs (+15 kirenna is an exception)
+1 for factories and common builders (except flying builder +2)
+5 for advanced builders (like shaman)
ark and flagship also give +1

storage dont worry about it, i think all this builders give some storage. the main thing is mons have 5k of storage with which u start. just remember, if u lose ur mon u lose 5k in storage, so be careful specially if u have a lot of mana stored


now all this is know at least by the best players so far, of course at first people would focus on learning cost, then things would get a bit faster and people would look at buildtime

today there is a concept that was never used on a conscious manner, and is just one in a lot of stuff that was never used by the top players much less were popular

it is buildcost/mogriumincome

it tells you how long it takes for your unit to pay itself and actually start giving u an income

generally people make divine lodestones when its safe enough. the more efficient though would be to upgrade considering very well ur strat, opponent, map, situation, mana and time

u cant forget time when u play good players. its what tells u that a priestess takes 515 seconds to pay itself


well i think u can get it already


one last thing, MANOLO was the first player to find the Ctrl+Stop hotkey and its a very very good aid at saving mana (or changing ur build according to situations and new events), especially when building up a long term economy with tons of builders after u make divines


u can learn all this by looking at the unit stats or just paying attention to the game interface while playing, there is information there about the units cost in mana, u can also notice how much income and storage the unit gives, even mana per second u can notice

so well, u could be the best neglecting this type of stuff in WZ, GSA and etc. you cant today

sorry for being an \"***\" maybe but facts are facts, you like it or not

and im pretty sure there is always room for improvement in a game like TAK, thats why i will never accept scrubs that call themselves #1 of all time. i only say i am the best ever in a mocking manner of answering to that, top players of all time dont exist in TAK

ps: i was a bit hesitant in sharing this, because its not rly motivating to see the same people talking shit about me learning from me. but well who cares after all

player1 wrote:

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

How do you manage your mana?

incomes are:
+10 for monarchs (+15 kirenna is an exception)
+1 for factories and common builders (except flying builder +2)
+5 for advanced builders (like shaman)
ark and flagship also give +1

storage dont worry about it, i think all this builders give some storage. the main thing is mons have 5k of storage with which u start. just remember, if u lose ur mon u lose 5k in storage, so be careful specially if u have a lot of mana stored

Please see the following.
Just extracted from the data files myself.

Name Inc Stor
Mage Builder 1 100
Barracks 1 100
Ark 1 100
Keep 1 200
Acolyte 5 300
Flying 2 200

Dark Mason 1 100
Cabal 1 200
Abyss 1 100
Temple 1 300
Dark Priest 5 200

Priestess 1 100
Enclave 1 100
Sea Fort 1 100
Flagship 1 100
Citadel 1 200
Pirest 5 100

Beast Handler 1 100
Beast Tamer 1 100
Beast Lord 1 100
Shaman 5 100

Mechanic 1 100
Smithy 1 100
Ship Yard 1 100
Academy 1 200
Chief Engineer 5 300


As you can see Zhon is at a major disadvantage compared to the other races.
While Aramon has the strongest advantage.

Mana storage makes one hell of a difference.
Lets say Aramon you make the standard build; Barracks, 3 Mage Builders, Keep, Acolyte. Thats 900 storage.
Lets say Zhon you make something standard as well; Beast Handler, Beast Tamer, Beast Lord, Shaman. Thats 400 storage. The difference may not seem like a lot. But if you compare how these 2 races play out, the storage difference between the 2 races begins to become more noticeable.


P.S CTRL+STOP has been in the game for years. Not trying to beat down the person who "rediscovered" it, but I'd be surprised if players like A-Train, or others who are equally as old didn't know it existed.

storage are useless imo. the differences are in kirennas +5 in relation to others, and dark masons and priestess cheapness. zhons lodestone are expensive and take the longest to build. creon and zhon dont have mage builder/dark mason/priestess for long term economy (stick with shaman for zhon and for creon any of mechanic or chief engineer works). also verunas lodestones take slightly longer to build but well its not that significant not even in spread mana maps

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

player1 wrote:

Hatebreeder-DB wrote:

How do you manage your mana?

P.S CTRL+STOP has been in the game for years. Not trying to beat down the person who "rediscovered" it, but I'd be surprised if players like A-Train, or others who are equally as old didn't know it existed.

stfu please, people like you are exactly the reason i hesitated to share this, the reason i stopped sharing stuff some time ago. this was NEVER known, its not in any manual. no one has ever spoken about it and manolo found it by accident

ps: sorry for the stfu, i mean 'pls dont speak shit ty'

The reason it makes a difference with Zhon is because they only make builders, where as Aramon and the other races you make a building + builders. So Zhon you make a beast handler and get +1, or you build 3 and get +3. Aramon you get a barracks and get +1, but you build more builders as every other race compared to Zhon. Especially high mana maps, its not unheard of to build 7 or so mage builders, when Zhon has roughly 3 beast handlers. Its easy to get a difference of +5 or so. But maybe you don't think thats relevant.


No, this was clearly around for a long time. Just because you didn't know it, doesn't mean it didn't exist to others knowledge. I don't need to argue this point, I've always used it. Maybe I was just taught by a different group of players than yourself. But its no wonder people find you to be cocky, with an attitude like this... sheesh.

If you really want more people to come back, you should think before you type such nonsense.

what does ctrl stop?

OMW ask spagg. hes also the one who found u can select all factories and go ctrl+stop (also useful when making tons of priestess, if u need mana then do it). its also on spagg's site

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

The reason it makes a difference with Zhon is because they only make builders, where as Aramon and the other races you make a building + builders. So Zhon you make a beast handler and get +1, or you build 3 and get +3. Aramon you get a barracks and get +1, but you build more builders as every other race compared to Zhon. Especially high mana maps, its not unheard of to build 7 or so mage builders, when Zhon has roughly 3 beast handlers. Its easy to get a difference of +5 or so. But maybe you don't think thats relevant.

i know that and im 10 miles ahead lol. u didnt speak about it u were talking about builders storage. storage dont matter cos u have mons 5k, lodestones 1k, divines 2k. 100 of mana storage wont change a game unless ur playing a script without mon or in rare circumstances

also u said aramon has the strongest advantage, ur r blind. veruna has it, maybe taros but this all depends on map

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

No, this was clearly around for a long time. Just because you didn't know it, doesn't mean it didn't exist to others knowledge. I don't need to argue this point, I've always used it. Maybe I was just taught by a different group of players than yourself. But its no wonder people find you to be cocky, with an attitude like this... sheesh.

If you really want more people to come back, you should think before you type such nonsense.

you never knew this, you never used it, dont pretend you did. thats because of players like you that some players dont share their stuff and will brag when owning you. i know what is the difference in gameplay when you use it, cos i use it. i teamed u one game and u dont use it. u barely know when to go divine lodestones man sup

yea its not impossible that some soul found it one time but he must have forgotten the other day. it was never known by any group of people, much less was popular

i dont want people to come back or not come back, wth r u talking about? i stopped caring. people play if they want, smurf if they want, pretend they know stuff after seeing someone share it if they want, make excuses if they want, bash on someone's merit just cos they r jealous or butthurt if they want, pretend average players from back then are best ever if they want, etc.

ps: im not cocky, i am just realist and yep if u consider any player that has played this game i have all reasons to be more than confident

About bonus storage (given by builders) I believe it can be very useful when the game takes a looong time and the map is big, when spamming builders with a factory can provide some good mana advantage after some time.

Other than that, it's pretty useless and makes no difference at all.. some factories and builders from aramon aren't THAT advantage against some zhon's builders..
But hey thats just me

I'm done arguing. Its useless. I know it existed prior to someone rediscovering it. Maybe the players who used it don't play anymore. Hell, I just came back and I know for myself that its extremely useful. I'm not trying to take credit for it because frankly everyone I used to play with on GameSpyArcade used it. I'm glad someone rediscovered it for your sake, because I don't understand how anyone could play without it. But its nothing new. Say what you want, get butt hurt over it, anything so you don't lose sleep at night over it. Its minuscule.

Mogrium storage can make the difference between you hitting 0 mana or not on many occasions. If I build 3 Acolytes, thats 900 extra storage for my mana to avoid hitting 0. My opponent could be playing Veruna or Zhon with 3 Priest of Lihr/Shaman and have a bonus of 300 extra storage. The difference is huge. The numbers themselves are not. Wrap your mind around that for a little bit in a Treb War, the difference of 900 storage mana is unreal, especially for something that is supposed to be balanced. Aramon also has the strongest advantage because they have a bonus of 5/6 units (arguably because of the ark) that can provided bonus income/storage, where as Zhon only has 4, that are limited in comparison. Veruna does not compare, they are the 2nd weakest. Taros being next to Aramon and Creon in the middle. Maybe you are the blind one.


Also... I have a technique that was practiced at the end of GSA. Among a very small select group of people. If someone can provide with me a way to record, free. Fraps? I'll show you something that is incredibly hard, and currently unknown to you and everyone else here. All you new guys think TA:K has evolved into a new level of combat... Truth is, you suck compared to the old players who arent around anymore. I managed to come back since GSA and still hold my own with ease. Its just not worth it to even stick around with your negative attitude. And just to throw dirt in your face for being a fuckass I'm going to show what this thing is that we practice, but I will not show you how to do it. Figure it out on your own since that matters so much to you. Clay4141 I need your help.

Who are you and why me? And I have no idea what you're talking about.

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

I'm done arguing. Its useless. I know it existed prior to someone rediscovering it. Maybe the players who used it don't play anymore. Hell, I just came back and I know for myself that its extremely useful. I'm not trying to take credit for it because frankly everyone I used to play with on GameSpyArcade used it. I'm glad someone rediscovered it for your sake, because I don't understand how anyone could play without it. But its nothing new. Say what you want, get butt hurt over it, anything so you don't lose sleep at night over it. Its minuscule.

Mogrium storage can make the difference between you hitting 0 mana or not on many occasions. If I build 3 Acolytes, thats 900 extra storage for my mana to avoid hitting 0. My opponent could be playing Veruna or Zhon with 3 Priest of Lihr/Shaman and have a bonus of 300 extra storage. The difference is huge. The numbers themselves are not. Wrap your mind around that for a little bit in a Treb War, the difference of 900 storage mana is unreal, especially for something that is supposed to be balanced. Aramon also has the strongest advantage because they have a bonus of 5/6 units (arguably because of the ark) that can provided bonus income/storage, where as Zhon only has 4, that are limited in comparison. Veruna does not compare, they are the 2nd weakest. Taros being next to Aramon and Creon in the middle. Maybe you are the blind one.


Also... I have a technique that was practiced at the end of GSA. Among a very small select group of people. If someone can provide with me a way to record, free. Fraps? I'll show you something that is incredibly hard, and currently unknown to you and everyone else here. All you new guys think TA:K has evolved into a new level of combat... Truth is, you suck compared to the old players who arent around anymore. I managed to come back since GSA and still hold my own with ease. Its just not worth it to even stick around with your negative attitude. And just to throw dirt in your face for being a fuckass I'm going to show what this thing is that we practice, but I will not show you how to do it. Figure it out on your own since that matters so much to you. Clay4141 I need your help.

If you "done arguing" and "it is useless" then just stfu! I know people like you, Jawa; smurfs who are old players from the "legendary" GSA era, who know TAK from head to toe and they know how unbalanced game TAK is and old and shitty etc. However, you don't "need to come back to prove it", because you don't "have to prove anything".
You know something interesting, Jawa? You HAVE to come back to prove your reasoning, you HAVE to prove yourself through action and not just mere words! If I follow the same 'strategy' of just talking and talking without playing, I can claim Ark, Wisp or Grenadier are OP for example (I've chosen 3 greatly underused units on purpose here) and without needing to play any game.
And calling Clay4141 in the very end... jeez! And I really thought Clay4141 stopped smurfing...

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

............

.... Aramon also has the strongest advantage because they have a bonus of 5/6 units (arguably because of the ark) that can provided bonus income/storage, where as Zhon only has 4, that are limited in comparison. Veruna does not compare, they are the 2nd weakest. Taros being next to Aramon and Creon in the middle......

I think u guys focus on 2 other things
Landherr/player1 -on price/mogrium income (for mass priestess dark masons which are the cheapest and more profitable to get 100 or more builders, and also probably little begin bonus(+15 other +10) by kirenna, so veruna is the best for mana)
Jawa -on easy and various units which give mana (aramon)

but anyway if someone gonna need mana from builders/units the best gonna be veruna(priestess) or taros(dark mason)

and in my opinion storage isnt important (i dont see big difference between 12k and 30k if i have 12k mana or more that mean i got problems with spending it(drop which rape my buildings/builders), who wanna presevere more mana)

xX[MLGpRO]n0scOPe720-Jawa wrote:

Blablablabla...... I managed to come back since GSA and still hold my own with ease. Its just not worth it to even stick around with your negative attitude. ........

depends what games you played if team i can agree sometimes it can't be played with fun/competitve (i hate teamplays )
if 1v1 depends with who
also about negative attitude just try ignore player1 if he looks aggresive/ignorant/jackass etc

I'm sure they already know the Thirsha lightning, lightning ball trick we let slip out a few years ago. But only you and I... and 2 others who no longer play know the 3rd trick. Do you remember what it is?

......... Who the \"****\' are you? Arthan if you're implying thats me you're wrong. Only 6T6 members knew of what you're talking about. And I only did it once. The \"****\' are you?

I'm Clay. Duh.