Opinion on tactics

Played a 1v1 with Sokka today, we were both Zhon. I was just kind of messing around trying a defensive strat. The map was rather small, mana in back of base left vs right. I didn't say anything in game, but as soon as the front/extension of my base was loaded up with spread out totems/hunters/stone giants that rocs/flying units had 0 chance of getting through and thrisha would die rather quickly if she tried to wave more than the very front, Sokka decided to start flying top of screen to drop orms on my mana.

I left it alone in game, as it was whatever it was basically just making it an even match even with his constant dropping in the back of my base. Which even after I put up like 4 totems, had a few stone giants and pack of hunters and eventually a few patrolling harpies, he could drop near enough my mana from off screen before roc was killed to typically get atleast 1 mana.

After game I simply messaged him and said "I didn't really care that much in game, but you are aware off screen drops have been considered cheating the same way random open gates have been for years". To which he basically said, well people make trebs.... I tried explaining why they're different. And he basically just said "well people taught me to do off screen drops and other players do it"

So my question is, is this common practice? I tend to mostly play with just a few of you who don't do this, so I could be unaware if this is common practice.

I don't care either way really, but is that really what the general consensus is? Trebs are complete bullshit and not allowed, yet off screen indefensible drops to the back of someone's base is "legal"?

That's pretty LOL in my opinion.

The use of going off the map for the benefit to make drops has been known as cheating since many many years ago. On the other hand, trebs or no trebs is a rule that can be made before the game starts, and it is NOT consider cheating if both players do not agree from the begging. Therefore, the use of the offscreen is consider cheating, and can not be compared to other game rules.

ohh, sokka was in lord's clan
lords => no trebs
you make trebs =>you cheat

LLOLL

BTW
i dunno why sokka sometimes use open gates, (hardly ever, more he play the less he use that)
and sometimes NOT try to avoid offscreen with drops (which is 100% cheating in 3rd small maps) (yea i catch him sometimes on this usually he ignore* alerts when i say that is not very nice xD)

*i feel that he ignore that or avoid

BTW2
trebs are legall i quess
{blabla}as i am zhon player i hate most creon neo dragons then trebs xD (i would make ?unfrozable? beast handler and lord), but here we go and one of the most important things is what race we play (something as LOL we can't play 5 "fighters"(adc or ap)
same kingdoms is really hard to play zhon vs creon, creon vs veruna(rushy style specially)
{/blabla}


BTW3
zhon vs zhon is usually painfull/messy hard game

BTW4
rules are probably the same
no offscreen, no open gates, no trebs if that was say before
i make topic about rules http://kingdoms.heavenforum.org/t864-rules-trebs-offscreen-gates-deleting-feeding-etc

Edit
most problems with trebs and offscreen come from fact that we play not proper maps LMAo (ex. who gonna care about offscreen on angvir maze? or treb on low/mid mana cd/dc map style)

Edit 2
{imo mode}
about maps, i look at starcraft and how that was evolve, now in starcraft 2 is almost only one type ladder maps (balance ones converted from SC1 to SC2) starcraft1 had many maps same as kingdoms 95% are crappy other 4%need little upgrade
some story

Spoiler:

{/mode off}

Offscreen is totally banned.
Treb is totally legal (except if people agree to not build treb before the game starts like saying "no trebs" then "ok".
I never saw sokka using offscreen, I'm surprised, never thought he would cheat.

he not cheat, he just little sometimes ?ignore/forgot? something

We should punish him for cheating. How about he pays the admin $50 for the website he is building?

I really wasn't trying to call Sokka out or anything, from what he was saying I assumed this was common practice now a days and I thought that was pretty hilarious.

Glad to know that's not the case though.

Yes I think we should not assume (or pretend we assume and make a fuss about it) things are common practice just because 1 guy says. Or maybe we should because it makes for more interesting and polemic threads.

Sokka has done offscreen before, he's just trying to start something lol. He's very aware it should be off by common sense.

diplomat wrote:

He's very aware it should be off by common sense.

Glad you were in the conversation where he blatantly said that he thought it was okay and that's what he was taught to do. You're right, I should've assumed some random was just "starting" something for fun, rather then what should be assumed, ie. he's a douche. It's kind of like when I respond in all seriousness to one of your posts, when I really should just call you a worthless cunt, but I typically take the more politically correct route.

As for the non-flame. I figured I'd ask, cause maybe a lot of people overtime felt that this was an okay option. I've played maybe 50 games in the past 2 years, and pretty much all have been with people I've known for a while very rarely with random "new" players. That is why I decided to ask. When one player, who apparently is very active these days, tells me that it is common practice and acceptable, I wanted to clarify that and figured this was the easiest way.

I wish I didn't look this before going to bed...

Quote :

That's pretty LOL in my opinion.

this isn't different than when Ck came resurrecting a topic, talking shit and making insinuations about tak's current play based on a post of 1 guy. Thus making you a worthless garbage cunt not me. This also supports my point:

Quote :

I really wasn't trying to call Sokka out or anything, from what he was saying I assumed this was common practice now a days and I thought that was pretty hilarious.

Nice you got a new flame long live TAK. GL HF and butthurts for all.

diplomat wrote:

I wish I didn't look this before going to bed...

Quote :

That's pretty LOL in my opinion.

this isn't different than when Ck came resurrecting a topic, talking shit and making insinuations about tak's current play based on a post of 1 guy. Thus making you a worthless garbage cunt not me. This also supports my point:

Quote :

I really wasn't trying to call Sokka out or anything, from what he was saying I assumed this was common practice now a days and I thought that was pretty hilarious.

Nice you got a new flame long live TAK. GL HF and butthurts for all.

Nevermind. You're not worth it.

LOL guys( $50 ARE U CARZY)

I just wanted to show u that(i think trebs in a small map are cheating(in angvirs maze ok the map is big) thats why i use the off screen to show you how u feel when someone cheats!!!As u see sammael made a big topic and now it,s going big, how i nasty cheat in thea game(trabs in a small map isn,t cheating)!!!Seriously guys now i am the bad one???


1st u didn,t get my point, i got mad about trebs. thats why i started to cheat to(Ging off screen idk any other) becouseI wear a Lord and they teached me that trebs are BAD UNITS IN SMALL MAPS!!!

2nd I thought that an honorable man will understand that in a small map you don,t need to use trebs(u have cannon, thats a powerfull wepon and my teammate was falling and i sawed him wit my thirshas wave(Iwaved his cannons,the stone giants didn,t do that they don,t ave so big range))

btw Sage, we aren,t evil players to say: "Yes he needs to pay $50"!!!

I remembered that X_DB isn,t honorable to win he will use everything, even kill his friends to win!!!

Sokka, you don't need to cheat to stop him.
Why don't you just ask him to stop making trebs and delete his ones that he already made?

Btw, trebs aren't cheating, they are just super OP on 3rd map. I know what you are feeling. =p
But, think one thing: if an aramon player, owns you on a 3rd map, with 10 trebs, and he keep bragging because he own you. He is just a noob! Aramon is a noob race for 3rd maps to prove you are good. If you are good enough, play the worst races for 3rd maps, such as Veruna. If you win, then you are good.

Aramon is like a Handicap in some games, and its handicap is like that:



xDD!
//Same for creon. =x

ORRR play fair in a CD/DC maps that were made for this game! Then you gonna have a real battle.

~PS: This is just my opinion with a little joke, don't take it as offense or blablabla, I don't wanna be in a discussion ;x~

DE-Sokka wrote:

I remembered that X_DB isn,t honorable to win he will use everything, even kill his friends to win!!!

So X makes trebs in a 2v2 game.... Where I was actually your partner. When there was absolutely no problem making trebs, not to mention I was the one who got trebbed to death. So your response to X, who at no point did anything wrong, is to then use off screen in a Zhon vs Zhon game against me the next day? And proceed to argue that off screen is fine.


Makes sense. Great logic, keep up the good work.

My dream is to be like Sammael let me try. HAHA look at someone whos been around for more than a decade arguing with a random smurf. That's pretty hilarious.

Offscreen isn't cheating. Opening gates aren't too. It's just common sense that they are off in online games. Speedjack and other things are cheat.

And if offscreen is really that bad play a top vs bottom map. All maps can have real battle, imho. And Veruna isn't always the worst, nor is Creon overpowered, many times not Aramon either, but it's easier to play.

If you rly care about races and stuff, play the same races, do offscreen if he does too. Make treb if he makes too. Easy.

I'll vouch for my old buddy X. Trebs are part of the game. It is not cheating. This (like we all know) is a strategy game. I've seen X lose games when he sets up for his trebs. Granted he is very difficult to beat in a treb war, but he can be stopped early and before he gets his trebs up. I've seen it many times.

However, I am not entirely sure that flying units off-screen is part of the game. But in having personal conversations with X, he himself does not believe that flying units off screen is cheating. If anyone has the power to do it, being the game enables it (glitch perhaps?), than it is not cheating. He believes that that can be prevented. In his words, and I agree, send scouts off-screen and they will knock the "flying attacking" unit into play.

X gloating over a win? I do not believe he does so well.. anymore. A long time ago he was a big mouth. I just don't see him doing that anymore. If he has made you feel small, Sokka, it was probably because you brought it up. I have been guilty of losing games and being in the wrong for starting a flame over the way a game was played. Just ask Myst a couple years ago!

Sokka, its all good. You're alright. Keep your chin up.. many people like you.

Quote :

Offscreen isn't cheating. Opening gates aren't too. It's just common sense that they are off in online games. Speedjack and other things are cheat.

People who think like this don't know what Cheat is!

Portuguese:

"Tipos de cheat

balblabla

•Os que fornecem ao jogador recursos infinitos ou em grande quatidade como munição, pontos de vida, dinheiro, etc,como os que aparecem em GTA San Andreas
•Os que levam o jogador a um estágio, uma fase, um mapa ou um cenário mais avançado.
•Os que podem ser considerados o do tipo mais "ilegal": aqueles que se aproveitam de falhas no jogo ou alteram partes dos arquivos do jogo (em alguns casos, adicionando outros arquivos à pasta do mesmo) para oferecer ao jogador vantagens não previstas pelos criadores, também conhecido como exploits. É mais comum visto quando usado em jogos de computador online."

English (I found a definition for that)

"Another type of cheat would be an exploit cheat where an advantage is gained through an unintended game exploit, such as skipping a weapon reload timer by quickly switching weapons back and forth without actually reloading the weapons. Generally speaking, there is often some concern that this is not truly cheating, as it is the fault of the programmers that such an exploit exists in the first place. However, technically, as with live sports, it is cheating if the player is not playing the game in a formally approved manner, breaking unwritten rules. In some cases, this behavior is directly prohibited by the Terms of Service of the game."

/*A big HU3 for you all.*/

Tnx A_train!!!

But now lets go to the Gate stuff(gates are to part of the game why i can,t open them)?

Trebs are to part of the game ((u all didn,t understand what i mean) I wanted to say, just in a small map they are as strong and powerful as...!!!)
I didn,t say trebs are cheating i sad tht if a players is honorable he won,t use them!!!

diplomat wrote:

My dream is to be like Sammael let me try. HAHA look at someone whos been around for more than a decade arguing with a random smurf. That's pretty hilarious.

Offscreen isn't cheating. Opening gates aren't too. It's just common sense that they are off in online games. Speedjack and other things are cheat.

And if offscreen is really that bad play a top vs bottom map. All maps can have real battle, imho. And Veruna isn't always the worst, nor is Creon overpowered, many times not Aramon either, but it's easier to play.

If you rly care about races and stuff, play the same races, do offscreen if he does too. Make treb if he makes too. Easy.

You're still a habitual point misser. At no point was I arguing. It's been an unwritten (technically its been written and talked about many times) but using off screen glitch among other things has been considered "cheating" for years. As ive already stated I didn't even bring it up in game while he did it repeatedly for 35 minutes. The only issue I had was him defending it afterwards and claiming that other people felt it is okay to do. So I wanted to make sure others weren't as stupid.

If you have to use glitches like off screen and open gates to be somewhat competitive it's just sad. This whole no trebs thing is a joke. If its decided before hand to not use a unit be it trebs, cannons, fire mages or hell if you want to agree to only make catapults, then fine. If nothing is agreed upon then trebs are fine. I'm not sure what noob came up with the whole ban trebs thing but its retarded and they probably had the same IQ as landherr.

BOUYA!!

"Follow the Master. Walk with the Master. Become the Master."
True words!!! I,m not going to argue about what is an honorable player!!! We are young and we learn from the masters(Teachers)!!! I,m not saying Trebs are wrong i,m saying: If u can win with out them u are a maser(Good player)!!!

I never care if players use trebs in my game, just learn how to kill them.

In regards to open gates, Sokka, it's always best to open them for a purpose and then close them when that purpose has been fulfilled.



Here are a few dishonorable things that are OK;

Killing your teammate when the game is over.

Keeping an open gate when you lose and its the last thing on the board.

Deleting your monarch to prevent it from giving an enemy unit gold status when you have clearly lost just to spite them.



Point is, you can get your urges to be a dickhead out in a safe and friendly manner!

Enjoy guys!

I just get payback on the next game and build twice as many trebs